A: I think they have got the criterion wrong - it should be a form of dress linked with the Chinese educational or academic tradition - not the ancient costume of the dominant ethnic group today. The "western" gown I wore the last time I graduated in the UK was made according to a 600 year old design specification and that was based on an even older clerical garb - based on monks' clothing basically because monks and priests ran the first "universities" in Europe. So I think that Chinese universities would need a link like that, something relevant to education, to be truly traditional. The "western" gown looks nice, why not just keep the foreign element in the Chinese system - it has been inherited as part of recent Chinese history, why go back in time at all? In the UK we were happy to absorb Chinese cultural elements - like the so called "English delftware" pottery which from about 1630 has been using obviously Chinese designs! English Wedgwood pottery is also rather Chinese! Well I given one point of view here, I am sure there are others!
B: Walking up on a dais in traditional Chinese dress to receive your baccalaureate degree. Well, that can become a reality if a Peking University design contest throws up something novel and exciting enough to replace the Western-style gown, which till now have been worn by students. The prestigious seat of higher learning, long known for its tradition of innovation, launched the academic-gown designing contest on Thursday. The criterion: the costume has to be traditionally Chinese. "
C: First of all, Hanfu, it has a long history all the way since 21th century BC. but it is not an "ancient costume"---I suggest you go and manage to learn something before you comment on it. However this "news" you've found out is for sure ancient---at least late for more than one year. Second, Japanese and Korean could choose their traditional clothes while attending their graduation and significant ceremony, it's a formal way to show respect. So what's wrong with Chinese who're trying hard to find back their tradition and traditional spirit they once had? Why don't you try to persuade Japanese give up kimono on their graduation day? Why bother with Chinese? Why bothering with something that has nothing to do with you at all? Anyway, I don't expect a British panda could understand anything about Hanfu and Chinese people, and I wouldn't care how foreigners see this, as long as Chinese do care, our effort won't turn out in vain. I found those Japanese more open-minded on this point. http://post.baidu.com/f?kz=186364956
As for delftware, I'm afraid it's the Dutch not the English who firstly absorbed this "Chinese fashion", they just run after every new fashion---Rococo had adopted Chinese elements, too (mostly just tacky taste from Qing dynasty), and Qing dynasty the architecture had also adopted westernized elements if you ever heard of Yuan Ming Yuan So what? I think there's a huge difference between culture, tradition and just seeking for exoticism and adopted it into fashion, now you seem to confuse the two I think for me it is important...not talking about graduation day, but for all the significant ceremonies and festivals. As for the lunar calendar you mentioned---to be specifically it should be Chinese Xia calendar, there're different lunar calendars...I don't see anything wrong with it. First it does good for agriculture with its meaningful twenty-four solar terms--and it is scientific and accurate, it is measured both by the revolution of the moon and rotation of the earth---in other words, it's calendar of Yin and Yang. it is considered as one of the most scientific calendars in history. And it had never "vanished" in China, so of course there's no need to "go back on". Some things invented in China a long time ago are not "old" or "ancient", but forward-looking, for some people who never bother to pay attention to them, then they could be ancient and useless, and turned out myth and tales. Chinese had forgotten too much they shouldn't forgotten and picked up something which don't belong to them from the west...I think.... Globalization is just a joke if you ask me, cause there will be no real globalization in every aspect, but if it had good influence on vanishing the distinctive tradition and culture of a nation, then it is sad. I tend to believe nations and ethnic groups shall exist after a thousand years and another. As long as they exist, there will be people perusing interest for their own nations, for their own good. You could globalize economy, language, you can have culture communications, and you can make everyone speak the same, wear the same and think the same, but if there's a nation with no traits and traditions, it's end up with nothingness, globalization is just a way to speed up nothingness. I don't like uniform just like what described in "1984", I like diversity. We don't have to sacrifice everything for globalization, nor should any other people with something distinctive in their tradition. If we just follow after any trend then we're as light as fallen leaves on the water with no roots.
D: Firstly, by "ancient" ---using this adjective I think it gives people strong impression of something old and actually, belongs to the past not something nowadays. examples---- Do you say "I use chopsticks"--or "I use ancient chopsticks?" Do you say I can write "Chinese characters"---or I write "ancient Chinese characters"? The country you came to is "China", or "ancient China"? Can you tell kimono is modern, old or ancient? Hanfu is a kind of costume, or "ancient costume"? By ancient news I meant the news is past news, but the costume is not. Now let's say English version of the news is ancient. But that's not your problem cause you have no idea about hanfu and you begin to write something about it, most foreigners are like you, thought that's ancient stuff, but at least they don't comment when they have no idea of it. Chinadaily is about China, so seems western gown should be moved away? No, they are relevant as for Japanese, Korean and Chinese, don't view things as isolated Talking about origination of culture and national costume, talking about protecting of traditional culture, no one ever doubt if a Japanese could wear kimono or not, no one ever doubt a Korean and suspect it's proper to wear Korean costume or not, but as long as it comes to China---- people suddenly pop up and jump all over it and bring up all sorts of funny questions suspecting this or that, I don't get it, why? Your question is why go for hanfu on graduation day
Allow me ask here, why can't han Chinese wear their hanfu in significant ceremonies? What's wrong with China? Or what's wrong with you?---by that I meant "why bothering with China". Maybe I was just being harsh cause I'm fed up with you people picking on everything about China and especially comment on things you have no idea of. Back to topic, wearing western gown is like han Chinese wearing business suit to attend in a 56-ethnic-group-community, when everyone is wearing their own costumes. It is like chinese boys and girls crazy for Valentine's Christmas and Halloween. You can't blame them or say it's totally wrong, but it's cultural nothingness to me, or significance "globalization"---it looks like globalized and formal, but actually significance vanished. It is ceremony, something significant, hanfu is suitable, though I don't mind anyone insist on western gowns, till now hanfu's not nation widely accepted, people feel strange about something they had lost, just like birds had forgotten about flying, while being caged for a long time, For my part, western gown should stay where they belong, just like those western festivals like Xmas, in case they look odd, running the risk of being distorted, and vanishing someone else's tradition in the way of "globalization". Therefore I think it's you got the criterion wrong(and you got wrong concept of hanfu, too), but maybe we just have our own criterions with too much difference. So keep your opinion. Delftware, again as I said, there's a huge difference between respecting one's tradition and exoticism novelty-seeking for fashion. And btw no one worries about westernized buildings in Yuan ming yuan, too. Not many Chinese complain about western festivals as well, Though I think that's silly. So what's your point? brits are brave to accept "foreign things"? Chinese as well, everyone likes exoticism, but not everyone has a taste, and knows how to show respect of them. A quite meaningless example here that's all I can say. Don't flatter yourself, whiners don't deserve attacks---by whiner you know that's a statement, not an attack, people know about panda moan. Culture is not my thing, I'm just interested in it and my knowledge is very limited
D:It's the old "I will imply he's attacking China so all the patriots will jump on him - and then I don't need to answer the point raised" ploy 25% of your reply was about the word "ancient" - already dealt with 25% was an argument along the lines of "shouldn't Han people be allowed to wear their own traditional dress and not be dictated to by foreigners" - but that is not the issue and the other half mostly complaining about me (but not an "attack" The issue is this - you have been using the British style gown for a long time already and following British convocational traditions (for the ceremony), so that is now the "tradition" the call for Hanfu gowns is a call for abandoning the "tradition" that you have already adopted for this new "Hanfu style". It will be a new tradition even though the wearing of the Hanfu costume goes back further. UNLESS, someone can give a relevant logical argument like: "The first Chinese universities were established in .......... and they had graduation style ceremonies called ...... and the traditional dress at these ceremonies was ................ so Chinese universities feel they should go back to this." The Chinadaily article didn't give any relevant case like this so I amn asking about it. Also, "why bother" - well China has adopted a British tradition and there is an argument for abandoning it now - I am British and in China; that is why I am interested. I don't read JapanDaily. Don't know what I am talking about - of course I don't, most of the posts on this BBS are by people who don't know what they are talking about! Anyway - it was you who said "Culture is not my thing, I'm just interested in it and my knowledge is very limited" Usually I am not interested in culture (whatever that means) and don't read this forum because in China foreigners are assumed or expected to be interested in China's long cultural tradition but any inquiry concerning it seems to turn into a nationalistic call to war and the foreigners don't learn much more - except how foreign they are and how over sensitive and defensive some people are. I will stick to bamboo
it's made of sticks with thin leaves on them - no argument there I see your point. Good logic. The concept of "university degree", as a matter of fact, is a western idea and legacy. Although it'd be nice to see hanfu gowns it's not relevant nor essential - not to mention revolutionary. What's important is the graduate gets the degree after many years of study and that should be the main focus. Many deprived students are struggling to get into university and some graduates/universities are wasting time talking about what to wear. On the other hand, as I'm a proud Han Chinese, it'd be great to see hanfu revived as a formal dressing for special occasions by the Han people. Would be great if the world identify us not just simple qipao wearers. I have to admit that although the ladies modern qipao are super sexy and unqiue (something also proud of) the male version looks funny, lack sophistication and, er, same as the ladies' but with trousers
E:Now you specific it into a costume that must have something to do with "graduation day" or "educational" The answer is no, and I don't think ceremony costume on graduation day must have something to do with educational, is there any educational costume? Because of conditions in early China, when universities appeared but hanfu was forbidden since Qing dynasty, Therefore mordern Chinese universities were established even the earliest one was since late Qing dynasty. So it was impossible to find out people with hanfu as graduation gown, actually they might just wear T-shirt or suits on graduation day, Here as I said, hanfu is a choice for some people, but your point is it's not a choice. The graduation gown must have something do with the "first university" Therefore I think you're unreasonable. As for "ancient", I was explaining why it is wrong and my point, I don't care you get it or not. You are wrong about it, you're incapable to answer my questions, but just labeling me and my posts, no thanks, I don't need you to analyze the arrangement of my posts. But if you can't discuss anything and get rid of it with a "I'm not interested in chinese culture I don't have to know it" but just perstering with "western gown with long time in china", I think you can get nowhere, you want know why, but you don't want to learn or know about the culture, Then you're just thinking without learning ends in "vain" I had clearly clarified why it could be proper for Han people to wear hanfu on graduation ceremony, and I had said people should feel free to make a choice. While You just brought up a question impossible, you said you asked questions about China but without considering situations of China and insisting on anything out of your own logic, then you say you're not interested in Chinese culture, and now you say I was just attacking your with no reasonable answers...and at last you didn't forget to label your own situation as whole generalization---that Chinese expect foreigners to be interested in their culture---with your experience(or imagination) with very few Chinese you met(judged by your posts you didn't have communications with many Chinese) and put on a victim show of how a pathetic foreigner suffered here. So no more waste time with you peace
F: It makes my day!
The Hanfu costume in the photos does look similar to the British university gown and could suit the same purpose but that is not the point here. Also, I do not, could not and should not wish to prevent people from wearing what they want but again that is not the point of this thread. This “Peking University" proposed this change; they are pushing for a new kind of gown, so I am wondering what is their reasoning. Still the questions remain - Is there any historical case for the use of Hanfu costume in the degree convocation and giving up the British ceremonial gown? Same question as I put at the start of my first post. The only answer given to me so far seems to be "Why shouldn't Han people wear their traditional dress at these ceremonies?" that is the same as just saying "Why not?" but it doesn't explain the case for not using the British gown and if all the students wore their own ethnic costume, wouldn't there be a lack of uniformity? - Ceremonial dress is usually uniform. SK quote: "Do you say "I use chopsticks"--or "I use ancient chopsticks?" Do you say I can write "chinese characters"---or I write "ancient Chinese characters"? The country you came to is "China", or "ancient China"? Can you tell kimono is modern, old or ancient? Hanfu is a kind of costume, or "ancient costume"?" No, I don't say "ancient" for those other things because I see chop sticks and Chinese characters in use every day in real life but Costume means "a style of clothing" and the Hanfu style is ancient (if it is over 1,500 years old) also I do not see Chinese people walking around in Hanfu style clothing - or even anything similar to it - except for a couple of girls outside a restaurant. So it is different from chopsticks, it is not in common daily use, and its style is of the past. SK Quote: "I don't care you get it or not. You are wrong about it, you're incapable to answer my questions, but just labeling me and my posts, no thanks, I don't need you to analyze the arrangement of my posts." I started this thread, I can ask what I like - so if I ask if there is an historical link between Hanfu costume and the degree ceremonies of China then that is the question I don't go around with a gun forcing people to answer my posts!
